argues that anyone who can't master English doesn't deserve to live in America

What am I missing here?

Bingo - ignorance has no barriers.

MSG Tripps wrote:

Bingo - ignorance has no barriers.

Imagine the electronic fence that would be required.

Stop reminding me where my scrapple comes from.   Eww, Pennsylvania.

Only here could a discussion about functional illiterates protesting immigration turn to scrapple.

I love you people.

OH GOD IT'S SCRAPPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ugh.  Rapa Scrapple!  UGHGHHGHGHGHGH.

beware people.  Do not eat the scrapple.

Lips n assholes, really.

I've seen that smiley face crap.  I never did eat Bologne or anything like that.

I'm not sure which is scarier.  I think between the two, Scrapple might be the closer one to "all natural".

What about blutwurst, souse and tongue?  I love'em!  (really!)

Bessie says "Yum!"

Last edited by whosasailorthen (2008-05-06 19:51:58)

whiskytangofoxtrot wrote:

What about head cheese?  Nipples, dicks, brains, all held together in a solution of ground-up snouts...mmmmm...

That which will not poison me; I will eat  [if necessary].

Hopefully the current administration will drive us all to cannibalism...then you'll want bologna....

whiskytangofoxtrot wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

whosasailorthen wrote:

What about blutwurst, souse and tongue?  I love'em!  (really!)

I don't know about the rest, but I love a good lengua burrito.   Mmmm, tongue.  Where's a roach coach when you need one?

Getting harder to find in LA.  Have you ever had tacos de ojos?

No, and I think that may be one line I won't cross anytime soon.

sigmoid freud wrote:

Go vegan,  chickenshits, or shut your burger holes.

Stripped bass are running at the moment but weather, coyotes and ratbastard neighbors permitting, I dig clams and raise poultry. Sorry, the chickenshit goes right to the garden.

Vegan? You're kidding, right? Any diet that requires such a high level of supplements just to make it feasible is not a natural diet. Vegetarianism I can see - veganism is just a cry for attention.

sigmoid freud wrote:

Remember, folks - nowadays, they'll  just grind up the parts we're too squeamish to eat and FEED THE STUFF BACK TO THE ANIMALS. That's how humans wound up with Mad Cow Disease.

Well, sort of.  Kuru has been around a lot longer than BSE, but it's really only a threat to Zombies.

Going vegan to avoid BSE is like moving to Antarctica to avoid Komodo Dragons.

whiskytangofoxtrot wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

whosasailorthen wrote:

What about blutwurst, souse and tongue?  I love'em!  (really!)

I don't know about the rest, but I love a good lengua burrito.   Mmmm, tongue.  Where's a roach coach when you need one?

Getting harder to find in LA.  Have you ever had tacos de ojos?

I've had elotes (corn) out of a wandering shopping cart in Long Beach. They slather it with mayonnaise and butter, and cover it in Parmesan cheese and chili powder.

I love lengua, too, but I wouldn't get it out of the roach coach. Our business partner's mom makes us all authentic food in the detached kitchen he built her to keep the smell out of the main house. I think I'm gonna ask her to make me some sweet bean tamales soon.

Now that I think about it, I have her to blame for part of my recent weight gain. She uses lard in her cooking, and now it resides in my ass.

A nice tongue sandwich, on rye with some cole-slaw plopped in there....  Damn, I want one now....

sofaking wrote:

Only here could a discussion about functional illiterates protesting immigration turn to scrapple.

I love you people.

You realize, of course, that this is a MENSA roundtable with fart jokes...

Rules/broken.

tojo2000 wrote:

whiskytangofoxtrot wrote:

sofaking wrote:

Only here could a discussion about functional illiterates protesting immigration turn to scrapple.

I love you people.

You realize, of course, that this is a MENSA roundtable with fart jokes...

I always wondered how they ended up with that name.  Did not one of the original members speak Spanish?

I always wondered that, too.

Which brings us back to the original topic. Immigration reform, and the necessity of knowing the language of the country adjacent to your own.

Personally, I don't see the fucking problem. People in Europe speak multiple languages (like the ones bordering the country they live in and English).

I think it's mostly semi-literate people who are struggling with their native language of English who are freaking out about this like the lady in the picture.

Last edited by sofaking (2008-05-07 15:43:34)

whiskytangofoxtrot wrote:

You realize, of course, that this is a MENSA roundtable with fart jokes...

Holy Crap! You've almost scared me off H-S with that statement. I played against MENSA in a Moot tournament years back (http://www.mootgame.com/ - if you like word/knowledge/brain games this one's the shit). We won...and afterwards the MENSA people tried to proselytize our entire team. Never in my life have I been surrounded by so many people with bad hygiene and personal space issues. We're talking fat greasy men with horrible teeth pressing their sweaty faces against mine to discuss the correct pronunciation of "steatopygium." Personally, I only join organizations for the pussy...and there wasn't any pussy there that wasn't visibly crawling with cooties. If I want to talk to smart people I have only to turn on my computer. Sure, there are turkeys here too, but at least I can't smell them.

sofaking wrote:

Which brings us back to the original topic. Immigration reform, and the necessity of knowing the language of the country adjacent to your own.

Personally, I don't see the fucking problem. People in Europe speak multiple languages (like the ones bordering the country they live in and English).

I think it's mostly semi-literate people who are struggling with their native language of English who are freaking out about this like the lady in the picture.

People in Europe tend to be much better educated than the Latin American peasants that are flooding into our country, so speaking with someone who doesn’t share your native language is interesting.  The average illegal who enters America has two years or less of formal education.  This is the big difference, America is the only First World country that shares a border with a Turd World country.  The “Spanish” speaking people we encounter do not have an educational level comparable to ours.

I’ve also noted that when Europeans move from one European country to another, they learn the language of the country they move to.  They don’t expect everyone in their new country to deal with them in their native language.  Educated Europeans do tend to speak English; I’ve been in situations where English was the only language everyone had in common.  Linguistic flexibility is required when you live in a part of the world where the language and culture change drastically over short distances.

Some of us are more interested in learning the languages spoken by our ancestors than we are in learning the degraded forms of Spanish spoken by the illiterate filth that has invaded our country.  I’ve encountered people who have been in America for decades and do not speak English.  My non-English speaking ancestors were able to cope with English within a short period of time after they got off the boat.  If I ever emigrate to a non-English speaking country, I will acquire basic linguistic competency within a short period of time so I won’t be helpless in dealing with everyday situations.

tojo2000 wrote:

whiskytangofoxtrot wrote:

sofaking wrote:

Only here could a discussion about functional illiterates protesting immigration turn to scrapple.

I love you people.

You realize, of course, that this is a MENSA roundtable with fart jokes...

I always wondered how they ended up with that name.  Did not one of the original members speak Spanish?

Uh, no, they probably all thought it was a language for

fnord wrote:

illiterate savages.

fnord wrote:

People in Europe tend to be much better educated than the Latin American peasants that are flooding into our country, so speaking with someone who doesn’t share your native language is interesting.  The average illegal who enters America has two years or less of formal education.  This is the big difference, America is the only First World country that shares a border with a Turd World country.  The “Spanish” speaking people we encounter do not have an educational level comparable to ours.

There was a time when the majority of the Europeans who immigrated to the United States were not that well educated, and were frequently illiterate. America has always drawn lower class immigrants looking to make a living - often planning to return home eventually. Nor is the United States the only First World nation bordering a Third World nation. Spain, as a matter of fact, possesses several enclaves on the mainland of Morocco, and is feeling overwhelmed with illegal immigrants from West and North Africa.

fnord wrote:

I’ve also noted that when Europeans move from one European country to another, they learn the language of the country they move to.  They don’t expect everyone in their new country to deal with them in their native language.  Educated Europeans do tend to speak English; I’ve been in situations where English was the only language everyone had in common.  Linguistic flexibility is required when you live in a part of the world where the language and culture change drastically over short distances.

I wish Americans were as good about learning other languages, but - again - even that doesn't always hold true. My mother's family is Scots/English and when an aunt married into a family of Germans living in German speaking communities in Kansas, she was forced to eventually learn German herself. It was the only way to keep her in-laws from talking about her in front of her. On the other hand, my mother's family also has a significant branch in Costa Rica and Guatemala: her uncle emigrated to Costa Rica in the 1940s and married. Those relatives speak both Spanish and English.

fnord wrote:

Some of us are more interested in learning the languages spoken by our ancestors than we are in learning the degraded forms of Spanish spoken by the illiterate filth that has invaded our country.  I’ve encountered people who have been in America for decades and do not speak English.  My non-English speaking ancestors were able to cope with English within a short period of time after they got off the boat.  If I ever emigrate to a non-English speaking country, I will acquire basic linguistic competency within a short period of time so I won’t be helpless in dealing with everyday situations.

A good rule. Not only does learning the language of your new home, or even the place you're visiting, make your stay easier, it's more enjoyable.

But, as were most of the immigrants in our past, many of the immigrants coming to the US now are economic refugees. They're looking for a chance to make a decent wage and support their families. I won't be a Pollyanna and insist that all immigrants are wonderful - there are bad apples in every barrel. But my experience with immigrants of nearly all stripes has been very positive. The people I work with come from an astonishing range of countries: Mexico, El Salvador, Guatamala, and - of all places - Ireland. From within those countries, they speak a wide range of dialects and languages, as well. I have a far easier time understanding those who speak "standard" Mexican Spanish and Californian Spanish than I do those from, say, El Salvador, but to an individual, they're all hardworking, gracious people.

Remember, Fnord, until the early 20th century, the United States did not impose visa restrictions on immigrants. The unwashed masses simply sloughed off from the slums of Europe and showed up in the United States. Only at that point did the immigration process kick in and decide whether or not they were desirable additions to the melting pot. And most of those immigrants were considered undesirable: they were Catholics and Jews, for god's sake and many were quite convinced they were coming here solely to take away jobs from hard-working white, Protestant Americans.

The anxiety hasn't changed; only the focus of the anxiety is different and, in this case, it speaks a wide range of Spanish dialects.

choad wrote:

Taint wrote:

I have a far easier time understanding those who speak "standard" Mexican Spanish and Californian Spanish than I do those from, say, El Salvador

Costa Ricans and Salvadorians are the ying and yang of Latin America.

Cubans are the worst Spanish speakers I know, largely because they tend to speak so fast and chew off the ends of words. Easiest to follow, for reasons I've never entirely understood, are Columbians.

My Spanish is Colombian, and no one ever has a hard time undestanding me. It's the Midwest of Spanish.

Cubans know they speak the way they do, and do it worse with speakers from other countries. I just know it. I dislike conversing with Cubans.

I learned all mis palabrotas (cusswords) from Mexicans. For people who are supposedly "stupid", according to Fnord, they come up with some funny insults. My favorite translates to "maybe you'll learn to drive in hell".

Last edited by sofaking (2008-05-08 01:40:47)

choad wrote:

fnord wrote:

I will acquire basic linguistic competency within a short period of time so I won’t be helpless in dealing with everyday situations.

Research has confirmed time and again, you'll swing entirely wide of its nuance, context and pronounciation, unless you haven't yet reached puberty. Language acquistion is painfully difficult for most after that, regardless of educational achievements.

I did say basic competency to deal with everyday situations, meaning shopping, paying bills, obtaining directions, that sort of thing.  I realize at my age I’m unlikely to develop the proficiency required to engage in doctorate level coursework.  I’ve had several years of both Spanish and French at the college level, though I can’t claim fluency. I no longer wish to converse with the uneducated Spanish speakers I encounter and don’t have enough opportunity to use French.  I’ve spent a lot of time in Paris and at the time was beginning to feel comfortable speaking a bit of French.  Had I stayed there, I would have reached the point of speaking the language well enough to get by, although with an odd accent.  I also had several years of Latin in high school, which is a big help when I encounter unfamiliar French or Spanish words.