#2 2010-12-07 22:44:37
Why wouldn't gays want to defend their glorious homeland?
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#3 2010-12-07 23:22:41
Can you imagine how much it would suck to be a private in the Turkish army? Especially if you're going places in life and have to put it all on hold. I can see why even in a society as homophobic as Turkey there are straight men who would consider claiming to be gay in order to avoid military service.
As for America, DADT has to go for a very practical reason. America is involved in pointless wars to prop up Israeli and corporate interests and a draft will eventually be needed. Being an out gay is no longer a big deal in America, and many straight men will claim to be gay in order to not be drafted to prop up the Halliburtion's bottom line.
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#4 2010-12-08 01:16:24
fnord wrote:
Can you imagine how much it would suck to be a private in the Turkish army? Especially if you're going places in life and have to put it all on hold. I can see why even in a society as homophobic as Turkey there are straight men who would consider claiming to be gay in order to avoid military service.
As for America, DADT has to go for a very practical reason. America is involved in pointless wars to prop up Israeli and corporate interests and a draft will eventually be needed. Being an out gay is no longer a big deal in America, and many straight men will claim to be gay in order to not be drafted to prop up the Halliburtion's bottom line.
EeeeNOUGH FNORD! The absurdity ends here! You are gay. Great! You are Queer. You are Here. We are O! Friggin' K! with it! It is time for deep-throated Americans such as yourselves to serve their country openly...AND proudly!
Now, when it comes to social injustices in this country, we have a (not congruous) unappreciated time line: Protestants, Catholics, Irish, Women, Germans, Italians, Germans, Native Americans...(not really until the whole gambling thing...), Women, English (WWII), Germans, Beatnicks, Koreans, Japanese, Hippies, Viet Nemise, Hippies, Central-and-South America {sorry 'bout that...}, Irish, The South, Women, and Columbine, CO.
I still agree with Grandpa Simpson in believing that Missouri is not a valid state...
It is now the Homosexual Community's turn. They have been ostracized as much as any of the aforementioned Great Americans...
It took the US Government to integrate many aspects of this country. Besides the oddity of the one division in the Civil War, it was WWII, before Jakie Robinson unified MLB, that the armed forces were integrated. Additionally, the ERA of the 1970's was endorsed by the Federal Government (Nixon no less). Granted, it fell five states short of ratification: Tennessee, Idaho, Kentucky, South Dakota, Nebraska. This, of course, is a parallel to the struggle of the LGBT community that you have attested to your involvement. (Who the heck thought South Dakota was a state?!) I won't even get into the whole Stonewall riots of '69, since in all reality, that has advanced the movement secondarily only to AIDS. (*to that end, Fuck Regan! I hope he gets dick-cancer in Hell...)
I am not suggesting that it takes "Big Bad Government" (BBG) to rectify the wrongs of the society, but if we leave it to society, the (absurd) status quo will continue. BBG has, for the greater good, been forced into what is right. When the USSC sent the recent court case back to the Appellate Court for "DADT," it was to ensure that there was no mistake in procedure or protocol as it had done for many cases it deemed important in the 20th Century. To ensure good law, it is imperative that there is no room for error.
Fnord, I may not agree with your perspective or what you consider "good taste" for race, but I will make damn sure that you are protected as an individual regardless of your sexual orientation. In my book, (to embrace the cheddar), you will be judged on the content of your character and not on the color of your cock...
Those of color have been given consideration because they did not choose their race. The same consideration should be given to those who did not choose their sexuality.
Sadly, if you want to die for your country, it should not matter who is fucking you...
A'hoy...
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#5 2010-12-08 02:40:40
Sic, Big Bad Government has never integrated disadvantaged or hated groups into the military out of the goodness of its bureaucratic heart. It does so out of a need for cannon fodder. Blacks were integrated into the service in spite of the fears White Southerners had of giving Blacks marksmanship training and guns because they were needed for cannon fodder, and also to eliminate the fiscal overhead associated with segregated units. I’m sure there were concerns about having White Southern Men in the military in the period right after the War of Northern Aggression, but the need for cannon fodder overcame these qualms. Women are now in the military in support positions in order to free up men to be cannon fodder, and eventually will be considered an acceptable source of draftable cannon fodder themselves.
It’s the need for cannon fodder, and not any consideration of social justice that will end Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. Many young men are savvy enough to realize that none of our recent policing actions have been for the purpose of protecting the American People (for example, deposing Saddam was done for Israel’s benefit, and at the instigation of the Israel lobby in this country) and they will not go willingly if a draft is instituted. Being gay isn’t a major social disadvantage as long as you’re willing to live in Blue state. And dying for corporate or Israeli interests sucks ass, so many thousands of straight men will use the Get Out Of Military Slavery option currently provided to gay men unless that option is eliminated before a draft is imposed.
Last edited by fnord (2010-12-08 02:41:49)
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#6 2010-12-08 08:49:43
fnord wrote:
Can you imagine how much it would suck to be a private in the Turkish army? Especially if you're going places in life and have to put it all on hold.
6 months. That's all they have to serve. For many of the poor slobs, it's the first time they have spent a night out from under the families roof. If you can't find 6 months worth of time in before you are 25 (the traditional cutoff when your deferment runs out and you have to report for duty) you are overvaluing your worth.
What kind of dangerous action is Turkey involved in? Beating up on a few hapless Kurds in the East and staring stonily at the Greeks in the West. And we all know that lazy slackers don't end up in foxholes in todays armies, they mostly end up serving chow or polishing transmissions. Weapons systems are just too complex, even in the Turkish army.
Do your 6 months. I'm sure they need someone to arrange the flowers in the officer's mess.
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#7 2010-12-08 10:30:05
See, the quoted part is something I think needs to be focused on. Giving someone the old ram rod isn't gay. Taking it is. This is why gays need to serve in the military and only in long stretch tours. The straight boys who haven't popped one off properly in a while will get a chance to do so and the gheys will be in hog heaven getting roughed up by strong soldier types.
I also think women ought to be allowed for the same purpose. Mash everyone together ala Starship Troopers and IUD and hormone up the women and let everyone go to town.
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#8 2010-12-09 04:43:31
fnord wrote:
cannon fodder
Bullshit
And just because Sic somehow missed mentioning the Jews doesn't make your response relevant to his post. Grab a small portion of perspective and declare your white pride jihad against the Saudis.
Edit - Merry Christmas
Last edited by opsec (2010-12-09 05:10:10)
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#9 2010-12-09 22:06:05
opsec wrote:
fnord wrote:
cannon fodder
Bullshit
And just because Sic somehow missed mentioning the Jews doesn't make your response relevant to his post. Grab a small portion of perspective and declare your white pride jihad against the Saudis.
Edit - Merry Christmas
...and the Jews...
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
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#10 2010-12-10 23:49:22
Here's the thing about keeping gays out of the military... and I'm surprised the douchebag religious shitheads haven't figured this out...
The US military has been more-or-less constantly at war since I've been alive. By keeping gays out, they are killing a disproportionate number of heterosexual US soldiers.
Therefore, back home in the USA, they are effectively distilling homosexuality to a greater concentration. In other words, keeping gays out of the US military actually makes the USA MORE GAY because it kills off proportionally more heterosexuals.
Thus it has the reverse of what I think is the intended effect (to make the men all manly, so those religious fundamentalists can ogle their sweaty, manly soldier bodies).
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#11 2010-12-11 02:44:26
Oh fuck, someone had to go there.
Hard to explain, just not a good idea when you are at the pointy part of the spear. Ain't about teh gays, but more about the rest of us. Natch the gays and gay supporters don't understand (or even want to); but you see it when an innocent 3 yr old recoils from a slight pubilic homosexual act. Like the homosexual compulsion the het-sexual revulsion is a hard wired reaction; now teh gays don't want to admit that but on an even societal basis they've seen it.
As a society we are mature enough to educate our children beyond that initial reaction; but we do that out of societal opression. None of us here want our friends to be treated differently; but as I told my sweet daughter - the homosexual lifestyle is a difficult road for everyone involved.
Please forgive us, fucking Puritan settlers set our course and it appears to be a very difficult course to correct.
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